Thank you Ursula,
You've summed up everything wrong with what Robert Weil (a former colleague of mine at OMNI during the period I published a Ballard story) said about J.G. Ballard in the article.


Calling Utopia a Utopia
Ursula K. Le Guin

Writing about the death of J.G. Ballard for the New York Times (21 April 09), Bruce Weber spoke to Ballard’s American editor at Norton, Robert Weil. Mr Weil said of Ballard: “His fabulistic style led people to review his work as science fiction. But that’s like calling Brave New World science fiction, or 1984.”

Every time I read this sentence it suggests more parallels:

“But that’s like calling Don Quixote a novel.”

“But that’s like calling The Lord of the Rings a fantasy.”

“But that’s like calling Utopia a utopia... “

It is shocking to find that an editor at the publishing house that had the wits to publish J.G. Ballard (as well as the Norton Book of Science Fiction) can be so ignorant of what Ballard wrote, or so uninformed about the nature and history of the science-fiction genre, or so unaware of the nature of literature since the 1980’s, that he believes — now, in 2009! — that to say a writer wrote science fiction is to malign or degrade his work.

To define science fiction as a purely commercial category of fiction, inherently trashy, having nothing to do with literature, is a tall order. It involves both denying that any work of science fiction can have literary merit, and maintaining that any book of literary merit that uses the tropes of science fiction (such as Brave New World, or 1984, or The Handmaid’s Tale, or most of the works of J.G. Ballard) is not science fiction. This definition-by-negation leads to remarkable mental gymnastics. For instance, one must insist that certain works of dubious literary merit that use familiar science-fictional devices such as alternate history, or wellworn science-fiction plots such as Men-Crossing-the-Continent-After-the Holocaust, and are in every way definable as science fiction, are not science fiction — because their authors are known to be literary authors, and literary authors are incapable by definition of committing science fiction.

Now that takes some fancy thinking.

If Mr Weil allows H.G.Wells’s stories any literary quality or standing, he’d have to declare that “The First Men in the Moon” and “The Time Machine” are not science fiction — invoking, I suppose, their “fabulistic style”.

Knowing those stories differed in certain respects from other fiction, and having a scientific mind and training, H.G.Wells himself sought a classification for them. He called them “scientific romances.” The term “science fiction” hadn’t yet been invented and adopted.

When I read such nonsense as Mr Weil’s, I could wish it never had been.

But “science fiction” is the term we’re stuck with. And in any reasonable definition, it is an accepted literary category, usefully and adequately descriptive of such works of literature as Brave New World, 1984, The Man in the High Castle, The Handmaid’s Tale, The Yiddish Policeman’s Union, and all J.G. Ballard’s major stories and novels.

Editors, critics, and others who use it not as a description but as a negative judgment are wrong to do so. And they do wrong. They are gravely unjust both to the science fiction of literary value that they refuse to admit is literature, and the science fiction of literary value they refuse to admit is science fiction. Mr Weil owes Aldous Huxley, and George Orwell, and his own author, J.G. Ballard, an apology beyond the grave.
Spiral


Copyright © 2009 by Ursula K. Le Guin
Permission is granted to reproduce this essay, with attribution:
by Ursula K. Le Guin

From: [identity profile] parrismcb.livejournal.com

Hallelujah and Amen


thank you, thank you, thank you, Ursula leGuin, for using that lit-crit vocab to once again defend the honor of the genre.

From: [identity profile] woodburner.livejournal.com


I have never and will never understand that kind of hare-brained thinking. Is not all fiction, by its very nature, a "fantasy"? No matter how you look at it, none of it is "real", so by what logic is sff "lesser" than so-called realistic fiction? Is there some sort of scale of realism, and the higher a work's score the more worthy it is of consideration for literary merit? Shouldn't we all just read and write nothing but non-fiction, then?

From: [identity profile] glvalentine.livejournal.com


And with that, Ursula K. Le Guin delivers an epic Oh Snap to one Bruce Weber.

(Awesome essay; thanks for the article!)

From: [identity profile] ellen-datlow.livejournal.com


Barbara Krasnoff linked to it on facebook.

I wrote to Weber right after the piece came out complaining about the comment and he basically blew me off implying it was nitpicking.

From: [identity profile] ellen-datlow.livejournal.com

the email back and forth--start from the BOTTOM


Here is the correspondence--read from the bottom up to read in order...
Ellen


Far be it from me to deny anyone the pleasure of riding a hobby horse...

-----Original Message-----
From: Ellen Datlow [mailto:]
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 11:27 AM
To: 'Bruce Weber'
Subject: RE: READER MAIL: Bruce Weber

LOL. Ah, but you see we sf/f/h editors/writers have been defending our chosen endeavors against mainstream ...what? denigration/trivialization, whatever for decades. That's a problem with working within what is perceived as a "ghetto."

Of course it goes both ways. I get annoyed when those outside the field say that "if it's good it's not science fiction" --eg Margaret Atwood, Michael Chabon, Cormac McCarthy, et al. But there are also those IN the fields of fantastic fiction who are suspicious of writers who dip into their territory.

I'm pleased that this has slowwwwwly been changing over the decades from both ends. Michael Chabon's fantasy/sf can be honored by both the mainstream and science fiction. Jonathan Lethem can move from sf/f to mainstream adulation, Joyce Carol Oates writers whatever she damned well wants whether it's mystery, mainstream, horror or fantasy. And of course, J. G. Ballard also slipped back and forth between his futuristic novels/stories and his mainstream work.

Sorry. Didn't mean to go on :-)



-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Weber [mailto:weber@nytimes.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 11:19 AM
To: 'Ellen Datlow'
Subject: RE: READER MAIL: Bruce Weber

Not that I care to defend robert weil, whom ive never met, but in my experience the blogosphere is exceedingly literal-minded...and whether or not you label orwell or huxley or ballard science fiction seems to me irrelevant, unless you're looking for a reason to be indignant about something.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ellen Datlow [mailto:]
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 10:48 AM
To: 'Bruce Weber'
Subject: RE: READER MAIL: Bruce Weber

Actually his comment that Brave New World and 1984 are not science fiction puts the lie to that. That remark has generated a LOT of ridicule in the blogosphere. If there was a comment section by your obit you would have seen the reaction to what he's said. And so might he.
Best
Ellen


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Weber [mailto:weber@nytimes.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:26 AM
From: datlow
Subject: Re: READER MAIL: Bruce Weber

i think he probably meant to suggest that science fiction is ordinarily considered a literary ghetto but that ballard proved it isnt....but perhaps you should be writing to him and not me.


----- Original Message -----
From: "NYTimes.com" <emailus@ms2.lga2.nytimes.com>
To: <weber@nytimes.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 11:24 PM
Subject: READER MAIL: Bruce Weber


> To: BRUCE WEBER
>
> You have received reader mail via nytimes.com. To respond to this
> reader,

> simply 'reply' to this message.
>
> READER'S NAME:
> Ellen Datlow
>
>
>
> READER'S MESSAGE:
> I'm amused that Bob Weil doesn't consider Ballard a science fiction
> writer

> when Ballard himself did. More to the point, Bob was an editor at
> OMNI, the science fact and science fiction magazine while I was
> fiction editor there and published "Dream Cargoes," by ...you guessed
> it: J.G. Ballard
>
> ARTICLE REFERENCED (if any):
> J. G. Ballard, Novelist, Is Dead at 78








From: [identity profile] ellen-datlow.livejournal.com

Re: the email back and forth--start from the BOTTOM


Btw, the email address was connected directly from the NY Times article so anyone else can write to him as well ;-)

From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/_stranger_here/

Re: the email back and forth--start from the BOTTOM


"...whether or not you label orwell or huxley or ballard science fiction seems to me irrelevant, unless you're looking for a reason to be indignant about something."

In which case, why include Weil's remark as though it were pointing out a useful distinction about Ballard's work? Doing so means he doesn't get to pretend it's just "the blogosphere" stirring up a fuss over labels.

But this is all obvious stuff we've seen before. Thanks for calling him on it, and for quoting Le Guin's wonderful response. I figure we've got about a decade or so to go before the culture at large finally gets past this old-fashioned view of science fiction.

From: [identity profile] nihilistic-kid.livejournal.com

on the other hand


I figure we've got about a decade or so to go before the culture at large finally gets past this old-fashioned view of science fiction.

I was once on a panel with someone who bragged that when she saw Stan Robinson's climactic thriller books on the Fic/Lit shelves of her local Borders, she'd collect them all and restock them in SF.

Ghetto walls are reinforced on both sides!

From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/_stranger_here/

Re: on the other hand


Don't I know it. There are so many reasons to be indignant about something!

From: [identity profile] toruokada.livejournal.com

Re: on the other hand


I'd definitely agree here: the ghetto walls ARE reinforced on both sides. Nothing against SF conventions, but you're unlikely to see a mainstream convention (but then again, what would be the panels be about? Adultery?).

I think it's a good sign that so many young-ish writers cross genre borders with impunity. Thank God for Michael Chabon (and RIP Roberto Bolano).

From: [identity profile] nihilistic-kid.livejournal.com

Re: on the other hand


There are lots of lit conventions—mostly they involve writer workshops, readings, and/or are held in interesting places (as opposed to the Ramada by the airport in Podunk).

From: [identity profile] graywave.livejournal.com

Re: on the other hand


"...what would be the panels be about? Adultery?"

I love it! Funniest thing I've read all day.

From: [identity profile] realthog.livejournal.com

Re: on the other hand



"Ghetto walls are reinforced on both sides!"

I think that's the truest remark on this page!

From: [identity profile] ellen-datlow.livejournal.com

Re: on the other hand


Yes, I've always pointed that out as well. We've got reverse snobs who want to "keep sf in the gutter where it belongs."

From: [identity profile] glvalentine.livejournal.com


HA! Well, you ARE only "genre," after all; he doesn't listen to emails from the little people. ;)

From: [identity profile] beezelbubbles.livejournal.com


Oh this is going to my MFA professors, where we've been having this argument since the beginning of the program. And everytime it goes the same,
"Scifi/fatnasy can't be literature, it's too formulaic."
"What about novels x, ya and z?"
"Oh well those... They're literature."
"So it can be done?"
"Well, well, well... I guess. But I don't want to read any of it from you."
And then I turn it in anyways, and it's not what they were expecting and it's actually okay. The sad bit is we have several lit professors who are all over science fiction and fantasy and don't question it at all. *sigh*

From: [identity profile] lizziebelle.livejournal.com


That was exactly my reaction when I read that article: Brave New World and 1984 were science fiction! D'oh!

From: [identity profile] scottakennedy.livejournal.com


Thanks so much for posting the LeGuin essay and your correspondence. It piqued my curiosity as to what Orwell himself thought of science fiction, and a little googling brought up the text below, which seems rather at odds with views of Mr. Weil and Mr. Weber:

"Back in the nineteen-hundreds it was a wonderful experience for a boy to discover H.G. Wells. There you were, in a world of pedants, clergymen and golfers, with your future employers exhorting you to "get on or get out", your parents systematically warping your sexual life, and your dull-witted schoolmasters sniggering over their Latin tags; and here was this wonderful man who could tell you about the inhabitants of the planets and the bottom of the sea, and who knew that the future was not going to be what respectable people imagined."
from Wells, Hitler, and the Future State
at http://www.george-orwell.org/Wells,_Hitler_And_The_World_State/0.html
found via L.J. Hurst's essay George Orwell in the World of Science Fiction


From: [identity profile] toruokada.livejournal.com


Fascinating essay. Not knowing Mr. Weil, I feel obligated to assume the best of intentions; maybe he wanted to help the late author get more mainstream exposure. Kurt Vonnegut, among others, has written about the dangers of being perceived as an SF writer.

Regardless of whatever we call it, I'd like to see Ballard in more readers' hands. And, whether or not this should be the case, there are people who'll avoid his work if it's sold in the rockets-and-robots section of the bookstore, the same they avoid--or are unaware of--Gene Wolfe's.

From: [identity profile] ellen-datlow.livejournal.com


Puhleese! Ballard already has had mainstream exposure--at least since Empire of the Sun if not earlier.

From: [identity profile] toruokada.livejournal.com


Yeah, that's a good point. It's not like he's unknown outside SF. I first came to him, I think, by an appreciation of his work written by Martin Amis. The mainstream isn't neglecting him the way that I think it is neglecting, again, Gene Wolfe.

IIIII don't know. I like Kelly Link's organize-the-bookshelves-by-colors idea. I realize Barnes & Noble isn't going to ride that train anytime soon.

From: [identity profile] ellen-datlow.livejournal.com


Gene Wolfe is solidly in sf so he's easier to ignore.

The mainstream only noticed PK Dick (even though he published mainstream and sf work in his lifetime) after Bladerunner came out and by then it was too late for him to "appreciate" their notice. Why did they finally accept Ursula Le Guin? (I don't know)

From: [identity profile] toruokada.livejournal.com


That's an interesting question. At first I thought, somehow, it was because Ursula Le Guin's a woman, but then where's the acceptance of Kate Wilhelm? Or Connie Willis, who's written such great short stories?

It's frustrating. I'm still waiting for the day when the mainstream critics realize how rigorous and brilliant Peter Straub's prose is.

From: [identity profile] crowleycrow.livejournal.com


I wish I could have doen this as beautifully, succinctly, and effectively. Thanks, Ursula -- though it may be hopeless.

From: [identity profile] pdlloyd.livejournal.com


Thank you for sharing this wonderful essay by Ursula Le Guin. I have had this argument with so many people. Redefining examples that fall into a category as something else, simply because you don't want to admit that they're part of the category is tremendously hypocritical, not to mention ridiculous, in ways that remind me of Orwell's Newspeak.

Fascinating essay. Not knowing Mr. Weil, I feel obligated to assume the best of intentions; maybe he wanted to help the late author get more mainstream exposure. Kurt Vonnegut, among others, has written about the dangers of being perceived as an SF writer.

[livejournal.com profile] toruokada, the primary difficulty I have with offering this excuse for Mr. Weil, is that when someone tried to "help" by denying that an SF book is not an SF book in order avoid the "negative" SF label, I feel they are contributing to the factors that make that label a negative one, because they are accepting and perpetuating the prejudice against all books with that label. I have very little patience with judging books, not by their merits, but rather by their subject matter or the category in which they may be filed on a library or bookstore shelf.


From: [identity profile] toruokada.livejournal.com


I see where you're coming from, pdlloyd. It's a bit like telling bigots, "No, hey, listen, this one's not like the rest of those blacks!" Obviously, there's a problem.

I'm not The Universal Defender Of Mr. Weil, and I have no better insight into his motives here than anybody else.

The important thing, maybe, is that we agree on the primary thing: books should be judged on their merits. I'll take a well-written ghost story over a badly-written academic satire any day of the week.

From: [identity profile] dreamnnightmare.livejournal.com


Thank you, Ellen, and Ursula Le Guin. I've been thinking for 20 years SF'd be out of the ghetto soon. It's like any revolution: it'll happen when old critics die. Not before, cos they won't change.

From: (Anonymous)


Whatever the genre, pieces of fiction cure like cheeses. Some must be consumed fresh, some rot, and others harden into classics. In the process, the acid of time must attack the original label, for most classics are covered by labels of such good taste, they should display the year of vintage. The Handmaid's Tale is already a "Modern Classic".

Anna Tambour

From: [identity profile] fastfwd.livejournal.com


I love you, Ursula K. Le Guin, I really do.
.

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