It has been pointed out to me by a friend that I may not be permitted to post the below info--so I've modified it...sorry if I screwed up:

The preliminary ballot is finally shaping up. However...the fact that there are still categories that barely have enough recs to make the preliminary ballot is a travesty. I don't read all the many strictly sf stories any more as most of my anthos (and the YBFH) concentrate on fantasy and horror but I KNOW there are more sf/f stories out there worthy of your recommendations. So read and DO IT--now!!!!


Plus THE TERROR by Simmons has almost enough recs to make the preliminary ballot and its eligibility ends the 31st...I'm more than half way through it now and still loving it. Someone out there must love it as much as I and others who have blogged about it do.

Go go go go....

From: [identity profile] vylar-kaftan.livejournal.com


Are you seeing a more recent update than I am? I only see 2 qualified novellas (although based on blog reading, I think the Shepard and the Sterling pieces will qualify).

From: [identity profile] ellen-datlow.livejournal.com


Yes, Brook posted it on sff.net in the lounge:
http://www.sff.net/people/kitsune/nebulas/071228nardump.rtf


From: [identity profile] vylar-kaftan.livejournal.com


That was fast! I JUST posted that comment, went to another forum, found the link, came back here to tell you I'd found it--and you'd already replied. Wow. Thanks though!

From: [identity profile] jenwrites.livejournal.com


The problem isn't that people aren't reccing short stories, it's that they're not coming to any consensus on them. There are 206 short stories listed on that most recent report. 206! With a field that broad, I'm amazed that I was able to find 13 people to all get behind my entry.

From: [identity profile] ellen-datlow.livejournal.com


That is a lot. So it means a lot of SFWA readers are finding a lot of interesting stories--just not the same stories ;-)....

From: [identity profile] cherylmmorgan.livejournal.com


If it is any consolation, we see this sort of thing in the Hugos as well. The short story category tends to be the one with the broadest field, and the one most likely to have a tie for 5th place on the final ballot. It seems to be something to do with the nature of very short fiction that people find it hard to reach a consensus on what is "good".

From: [identity profile] ellen-datlow.livejournal.com


Well 7500 words and under isn't "very short" --I can see that sort of problem for flash fiction but not short stories...I constantly read short stories and can judge within minutes if they're good enough to at least rec for an award. (as I do during the year for the Stokers).

From: [identity profile] ellen-datlow.livejournal.com


I recommended 33 short stories (which are up to 10,000 words for the Stokers) so far with more (I'm sure) coming--I have two more weeks to read for the Stokers as the recommending lasts till January 15 (or 14th) --I forget.

From: [identity profile] cherylmmorgan.livejournal.com


Well yeah, but as "short story" is the shortest of three different groups of short fiction it is comparatively very short.

I make no claim as to the reasonableness of the problem. Perhaps people ought to be able to judge short story quality better (although I note that you are something of an expert in this field - if you weren't so good at picking winners you wouldn't keep winning awards for your anthologies). But it does happen in the Hugos and it appears to be happening in the Nebulas too.

From: [identity profile] ellen-datlow.livejournal.com


The borderline between short story and novelette is very thin. There are a lot of short novelettes out there. In general, certainly when at SCIFI.COM I found myself publishing more novelettes than short stories.

If anything (and this seems to be borne out) --it's usually harder to get enough novellas on a ballot than short stories and novelettes. Because they're too long to read in one sitting and not long enough to totally immerse oneself in? (I don't have answers, just questions)

From: [identity profile] vylar-kaftan.livejournal.com


That's what happened to me. I was only able to make time for the ones close to qualifying. In the new year I'll try to read some more.

From: [identity profile] cherylmmorgan.livejournal.com


With novellas I had always assumed that it was because so few of them got written/published, but I have no hard data to back that up.

From: [identity profile] ellen-datlow.livejournal.com


I'm sure that's part of it but I think it's a combination of those two factors.

From: [identity profile] jenwrites.livejournal.com


I also wonder if it might have something to do with the explosion of online short fiction markets. There are far more places to send a 5,000 word story than there are to send a 10,000 word story nowadays, so there are a lot more short stories out there to read and rec.

From: [identity profile] cherylmmorgan.livejournal.com


Could be. Again we have no data. It is also very hard to know whether people read all of these magazines and rec what they like, or whether they only read a fraction and rec stories from them that people like Ellen might not consider award-worthy.

However, you have reminded me of another award-related issue. Most of these online fiction magazines are eligible for the Best Semiprozine category in the Hugos. Sure they are unlikely to beat Locus, but Interzone has won, Lady Churchill got a nomination last year, and Electric Velocipede was in the runners up. From discussions with the SMOF community it seems likely that a motion to abolish the Semiprozine category will be put to WSFS this year, and judging by the reaction we got when we discussed the issue on SF Awards Watch, such a motion is very likely to be passed. But that decision is going to be taken by people who, for the most part, don't read the online fiction magazines, and in many cases don't even know that they exist. The category could be a lot more interesting if the online (and smaller offline) fiction magazines and their contributors and readers took more interest in it, but you probably only have two years in which to rescue it (changes to the Hugo rules have to be voted through at two successive Worldcons).

From: [identity profile] jimvanpelt.livejournal.com


I've been plugging The Terror consistently. I've never been so cold while reading a book.

From: [identity profile] ellen-datlow.livejournal.com


I saw the plug on your blog, which reminded me to plug it one last time.

From: [identity profile] vylar-kaftan.livejournal.com


Ellen, can you please clarify something for me? We'll take "Holiday" as an example. It was published Sep07 and has 6 recommendations.

My understanding is that if it receives 10 recommendations on or before the 31st, it'll go to the 2008 preliminary ballot. If the 10th recommendation comes between Jan08 and Aug08, then "Holiday" would be on the 2009 preliminary ballot. Right?

And if it qualifies for the 2008 preliminary ballot, how does that affect its eligibility in 2009 if it a) doesn't make final ballot, or b) is on the final ballot but does not win?

Feel free to point me to a web page. I read the Nebula rules in the SFWA Forum but either I missed it or it didn't cover this situation.

Thanks! This is all new to me.

From: [identity profile] ellen-datlow.livejournal.com


I'm not actually sure about all this but I know for sure that a story can only make the final ballot once.... I'm not sure about the preliminary ballot...are you on sff.net the sfwa topics? If so, why don't you ask there...if you're not. I can ask for you.

From: [identity profile] ellen-datlow.livejournal.com


In the below case, yes it would roll over till the 09 preliminary ballot.

>>>>My understanding is that if it receives 10 recommendations on or before the 31st, it'll go to the 2008 preliminary ballot. If the 10th recommendation comes between Jan08 and Aug08, then "Holiday" would be on the 2009 preliminary ballot. Right?

From: [identity profile] ellen-datlow.livejournal.com


I found the rule:

A work is eligible to be placed on the Preliminary Nebula Ballot only once.A work that has been placed on the Preliminary Nebula Ballot is no longer eligible, even if the twelve month eligibility period has not expired.

From: [identity profile] vylar-kaftan.livejournal.com


Thanks very much! I haven't gotten into the forums yet because I just got my password only two weeks ago, and haven't had time to browse around yet.
.

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