ellen_datlow | Vote vote vote--and rec rec rec rec

Vote vote vote--and rec rec rec rec

Ok. Here's my impassioned plea/push/nag for anyone who reads this blog and is eligible to recommend stories and or novels for the various peer group science fiction, fantasy, and horror awards.
I know that some people feel that awards themselves are a bad thing and that they should all be abolished. I'm not talking to you. I don't believe that and I know I'm not going to change your minds.

Awards are NOT going to go away but they could become less visible (which I think is a bad thing). As an editor I really appreciate it when the stories/books I edit make final award ballots and win awards. And I think most writers are even more appreciative of this. It gives a sense of validation for what you're doing by your peers (for the Nebula and Stoker).

Right now is "award rec season" and there are discussions on both the SFWA Bulletin Board and the HWA Bulletin Board about how their respective awards are dying --not enough members are recommending works to even make a preliminary ballot.

Now some people think that this might be because no one likes the work being published.
Others that no one is reading enough short fiction to be interested in recommending works in those categories.
I have a really difficult time believing the first reason. I've been reading sf/f/h short fiction for twenty five years and have found no drop off in quality in any of those fields.

I can't answer for the second but I hope it's not true because if so my profession will die and I love editing short fiction.

If you care at ALL for the genre short story then I urge you to recommend the stories that you think are worth bringing to the attention of your peers.

This is totally off the cuff and I know if I thought about it more I'd have more to write--but I'd also probably just delete the whole post...

Comments welcome!

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Ellen,

I think there may be fewer people who are reading and writing short fiction that are part of the professional organizations and therefore not eligible to nominate or vote.

John Klima

I'm going to second this comment.

I'd love to have the hard data, but since I don't I can only toss some speculations in the ring which comes down to less and less people are HWA and especially SFWA members, or interested.
Again, I don't know the hard facts, but somebody a while back mentioned that it looked to her that increasingly younger writers were simply not interested in the SFWA; this sentiment seemed mostly to be confirmed on a poll Mary Robinette Kowal had on her blog.
A lot of people who did qualify for at least associate (or haven't yet) were either not interested at all, or ex-members with no intention of renewing membership.

There, most probably, is your problem. I think people would vote, but they're not allowed. The problem may have nothing to do with short fiction itself and everything with the organizations themselves losing ground with people.
(sorry, John, just wanted to second your comment, and it turned a bit ramblish)

Yes, I agree and that's a real problem. I would like to encourage newer (younger or not) writers to join both SFWA and HWA but that's a whole other issue.
What about those who already ARE members? They're not recommending.
For the Stokers so far I've recommended:
Two first novels
two novels
Two collections
One anthology
24+ short stories
11 long stories
(there are only two short fiction categories in HWA and they're separated by the 7500 word limit)

I'll be recommending more as I continue to read for YBFH.
So as far as I can see it's not a question of quality.

No idea why the current members aren't voting; maybe they really aren't reading. You do get that - writers who want to be read, but don't have time for reading others because they're writing and put their fans first *cue eye-roll*

I read, there's more material out there than i have either money or time for, but I do still like reading. So do a lot of people I know here on lj. Time is an issue, more so than the money needed to buy the mags and anthos. One thing that counts for online fiction of course, and does work, is that it's easy to pop a link to a story you like.
(money - people are more likely to spend on novels, though, all the more reason why I seriously believe short mags should move online, with themed anthos for print.)
That works to bring attention to shorts people would have missed otherwise, and there are enough people who do follow the links when they're posted. But, a few may be doing it, but how many overall? mostly, it's still people linking themselves (understandably) or friends (also understandably and needed), but linking for strangers? not so much.
Print, whether mag or antho, is a whole nother thing. It requires money and accessibility, and outside the US it appears short fiction print is like hunting snow in the Sahara. Zero accessibility, so why would I hand over money for it?
I have, in total, seen one copy of Asimovs in my bookstores; a girl from Ireland has seen one copy total of Asimovs in her stores; apparently in Australia they don't get much either.
(I do have a few subscriptions, but it's bloody expensive and required a great deal of blind faith on my part).
There's one aspect of it.
Mostly, it's the lack of dialogue, by which I mean open and unprompted talking about short fic; as opposed to novels where it happens a lot more on the blogs and forums.
There's no real dialogue, just a huge silence for the most part, except "ooh, short fiction is doomed! short fiction is doomed!"

re: membership - hmm, yeah,another time maybe, but right now from what I hear the HWA is a maybe, the SFWA bah. (for myself, and I do qualify for associate, I think).

shouldn't you be asking this directly to the members themselves? the ones on the boards? why do they say they are not reading and recommending (not why isn't everyone else, why aren't they?)

David,
There's a discussion about just that in the SFWA sff.net group--that's what prompted me to post about the problem here.
Btw, I gather you're in the UK? Aren't magazines like Postscripts and Interzone and Albedo One (Irish) easily accessible? I don't know how foreign distribution works for F&SF and Asimov's and Analog. Perhaps if Gordon pops by he can tell us.

I guess what I'm partly trying to do with this blog is create a dialog about short fiction. I've never blogged before (I started the first week in September) so am playing it by ear here. I mention what I'm working on (which is usually short fiction)...how can I get potential readers more interested?
Would it be a good idea for me to mention which stories I'm taking for YBFH as I decide and try to explain why?
Mention the novels I read as I read them and the better collections, etc?
I'm definitely open to suggestions as to what anyone would be interested in seeing in my blog...(if it interests me I'll blog about it ;-))

"Would it be a good idea for me to mention which stories I'm taking for YBFH as I decide and try to explain why?
Mention the novels I read as I read them and the better collections, etc?"

Yes and yes.

Thanks for encouraging folk to vote!

No, I'm South African:)

It would appear Interzone and Albedo One isn't as available throughout the whole of Great Britain, as the Irish girl I mentioned knows about Interzone but has never seen one.

well, blog what you want to blog about, right? In your case, people would likely take a large interest in the reading for YBFH - stories that get taken, but also ones that come close, etc. So, yes, that would help a good deal.
Same with discussing novels, anthos, etc as and when you read them. Yes, that would likely help a great deal.

Have you seen the Dozois essay on Amazon about building the Year's Best SF?

I'd like to see one of those from each of the Super-Editors. :) Same goes for your partners in crime of tje annual camel killer potential tome.

Similarly, you said you have a new Del Rey hopefully series anthology come out - how did that happen, how do you stock it, etc.?

Jay Lake had a generic 100K word anthology explanation on his livejournal which was nifty, and the Conflux podcast had Dann and Strahan and Congreve and Stevenson and the odd other talking about anthology making, so the more the merrier.

You did a magazine recently - same with that, perhaps, what is different about doing that, etc.?

I haven't seen Gardner's essay. Where is it?

I'm often on panels that are about putting together anthologies and I've been asked in interviews over the years, too. It's not a secret ;-) But if you (and others) think it useful to describe the process, I can do that...more later, I'll respond to your questions when I have more time.

Panels and interviews that are 15,000km away may as well be secret. :)

Here's the essay (an amazon short, you have to buy it).

Building Year's Best

I'll ask him to email it to me :-)

The only magazine I have seen recently is FSF. They did used to be around.

Fictionwise multi-year subscription a lot more consistent, there, and around 1/7 the price.

If you don't like sitting at the computer reading 'em, you could consider a cheap old Palm pilot, fits in a pocket nicely.

Forgot about Fictionwise:) they are an additional option, although they don't have many mags there - F&SF, Asimovs, Analog. Who else? ASIM just does pdf through their own website, but at least they are offering options, which too many are not.

Something that occurred to me just now (and I'm going to tap on you a bit, Tyson), but - are only writers allowed membership in the organizations and therefore eligible for voting?
What about non-writing affiliated readers, like Tyson? meaning, voters coming in as readers, not because they're writers or editors. Surely, if such an option existed and more effort was made from HWA and SFWA to include a form of associate for "fans only", with perhaps no say or privy to writer issues, but at least a vote in the Nebula, Stoker, etc.
The awards are pretty much fan/ popularity driven anyways, aren't they? so, imo, including non-writer readers into voting rights would make buggerall difference except there could be more nominations. And that's pretty much the issue right now - not enough votes. Non-writers would pay for minimal membership if they could vote, no?

I don't think anyone would care what I think, or anyone else like that, David. :)

Reader affiliate memberships and let the people who buy the stuff in? Those commoners? Lol. Wouldn't think so, in a writing organisation.

You do have a bit of a point though. Charles Stross for example I saw say writes the stuff, doesn't read it, and a lot of writers are likely similar, so lots of the members will be about as useful as an octopus at a three legged race meeting for things like nomination. A lot of them will be wasting valuable reading time doing insane stuff like write 200K word novels for hours and hours a day.

Would having just the major editors pick the stuff be better? Any particular way will have flaws or biases, etc. No-one else can easily get to most of the stuff, anyway.

Some good news coming on that front, David, perhaps :-

Interzone electronic, perhaps?

They have done their Crimewave mag in the same format as Asimov's etc. Looks good.

Speaking of costs though, with a membership and a sale at the time I think two year subs to the digest type mags came out around $2 each in that Northern Hemisphere monopoly money.. Not a big deal difference to the yanks who can maybe get print similar prices doing the same thing, but is to us.

Aeon? Is that a yearly? You can get that electronic, too I have seen. ElectricStory.com perhaps?

the digests cost me either $40 x 7 = R280 for 1 year, or $80 x 7 = R560 for 2 years. And since I make sooooo much money (I squat over the toilet and the diamonds roll out, you know), it's totally not a problem!

hehe, yes, writers make so many unappreciated sacrifices for the fans, like offering up their beloved reading time to write stories. Slaves to the fans, ungrateful wretches!
All the more reason, in point of fact, to get people involved who DO read the stories!

ta for the link on Interzone, not a forum I'm often on, will keep an eye on that.

US post office (Craziest in world) dumped surface mail, too, does that make it worse?

No way would I subscribe and hope they make it through that given what other people have been saying.

David,
Yes, only fiction writers are allowed into SFWA as active members. But fiction and nonfiction writers can join HWA as active members. The idea is for these to be "peer" awards unlike the Hugos, which are a fan award --anyone can vote, just pay the fee.
To allow fans into an organization only in order for them to vote is a bad idea. HWA and SFWA, as imperfect as they are, are intended to help professional writers.

hmm, well I suppose then both organizations will need to do an active effort to recruit and keep more members, is all.

Hugos - but you need to have attented Worldcon to vote for them, isn't it? or is that applicable only to the Campbell best new writer?

(there's too many awards, you know; they're blurring into one vast amoeba in my brain).

Someone may have already responded to this(I've been out all day) but if not: I believe that as a member of the year before you can nominate...in order to vote for the final ballot you have to be a member of the forthcoming Worldcon.

The Academy Awards don't bar directors from voting, do they? Barring editors is a bit like that, isn't it?

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Vote vote vote--and rec rec rec rec

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